#((And are you addressing Kanaya or me

[caligvlasaqvarivm]

I know you've touched on it in your Gamzee Essay/general alternative timeline post but may I hear some more about your ideas regarding GamTav (or only Tavros)? You get these two in a way the broader fandom doesn't (which is fine, I'll still reblog even the most vanilla ooc art of them) so I'd really love hearing more of your thoughts:3

Ok, I think this is going to be someeewhat controversial, but I think they're destined for pale together, despite Gamzee's initial flushed flirting. I did in fact reread ALL of Tavros's logs for this.

I think the first thing we need to establish is that Tavros actually feels really shitty about himself. It's obvious that his problem is "self-esteem," since he's constantly prattling on about it, but there's a bit he says as Tavrossprite that's pretty enlightening as to where his actions stem from:

TAVROSPRITE: i SYMPATHIZE ENTIRELY WITH YOUR SOCIAL IMPASSE, cAUSING NOT GOOD REFLECTIONS ABOUT YOURSELF, tHAT MAYBE ALSO DOUBLE AS LIBERATING STUFF ABOUT YOU THAT YOU RANDOMLY DECIDE IS FINE SUDDENLY, TAVROSPRITE: oLD ACQUAINTANCES, aND GUYS YOU ONCE CALLED FRIENDS, TAVROSPRITE: tHOSE ARE VERY HARD, TAVROSPRITE: bECAUSE OVER TIME THEY GET EXPOSED TOO MUCH, tO ALL MY FLAWS AND INSECURITIES, TAVROSPRITE: aND THEY START LIKING ME LESS BECAUSE OF THAT, TAVROSPRITE: aT LEAST, tHAT'S HOW THE TRUTH FEELS, iN MY BRAIN, TAVROSPRITE: sO i START THINKING, mAYBE THEY CAN'T BE THAT IMPORTANT TO ME, aFTER ALL, iF i'M GOING TO WANT TO FEEL NOT SAD ABOUT MYSELF ALL THE TIME,

He has a mixture of self-loathing and social anxiety, the latter of which exacerbates the former, as his mind tells him that his friends secretly hate him. However, his real problem is what he then does with those feelings - he avoids them and the situations that cause them. This causes two major knock-on effects: the first is that he actively ends up distancing himself from people who ARE nice to him and DO care about him, only adventuring with Vriska because he's a pushover and she's very pushy (he adventures completely alone up until that point, and winds up sleeping almost all the time afterwards); the second being that, because he refuses to actually sit with and address his negative feelings about himself (or anything else), he's never able to fix them, or remove himself from shitty situations.

Something consistent with Tavros is that every time he tries to make a decision before his death and Vriska-prototyping, it's by trying to rely on something external - whether that's his imaginary friend, his robot legs, or the story of Pupa Pan... or relying on advice from Kanaya, or seeking approval and forgiveness from Vriska, or earning flushed interest from Jade. He believes himself to be deeply flawed and untrustworthy, so he allows other people to make his decisions, and when relationships do get intimate enough that someone might get him vulnerable, he peaces out. Even his ill-fated attempt to kill Vriska is heavily encouraged by Vriska herself:

AT: aND THAT BEING THE CASE, AT: eVEN THOUGH i'M TERRIFIED OF YOU, AT: aND nOT AS STRONG, AT: oR REAL CONFIDENT, AT: oNLY MOSTLY FAKE CONFIDENT, AG: Yeeeeeeees? AG: Go on. AT: i THINK, AT: i AM GOING TO HAVE TO STOP YOU, AG: Yeah! That's the spirit. AG: Pretty weakslime threat there, 8ut it's a start. AG: Tell you what. AG: If you can find me in this la8, you can have at me. AG: I'll even give you a free shot! No funny 8usiness or anything. AT: oK, AT: tHEN, AT: hERE i COME, AG: I'll 8e w8ing. <3

As we see with Jade, whom he's attempting to flirt with flushed, he's actively trying to impress her using "self-esteems" explicitly gained from "fake" things he's acknowledging as fake - that is, refusing to be genuine and vulnerable with her, because he doesn't believe anyone would like him the way he actually is.

AT: bUT WHAT ABOUT, AT: mY ATTRACTIVE BRAVADO, AT: aND IGNORING MY INSTINCTUAL COWARDICE HARD ENOUGH TO SAY THAT i LIKE YOU, AT: iSN'T THAT, AT: sUPPOSED TO BE VERY ATTRACTIVE, aND ENCOURAGE THE MAJOR HAVING OF FLUSHED FEELINGS IN OTHERS, AT: i GUESS WHAT i MEAN IS, wHAT ABOUT ALL MY CONFIDENCE, AT: wHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT,

His "dating" Vriska in the dream bubbles is also dubious and one-sided at best, as John calls him out for faking it and Tavros isn't willing to bring up wanting the Ring of Life because he was planning to propose to Vriska. Thus, once more, he's attempting to use something disingenuous (in this case, a human proposal) to win another person's affection, which he believes would be a symbol of actualizing his "self-esteem".

We also literally see him do the "deciding someone wasn't actually important to you after all, so it hurts less when you cut them off before they can hurt you emotionally by noticing your flaws" thing with Nepeta - he actually quite likes Nepeta, and would certainly have enjoyed having her play the game with him, but he assures her that it's not a big deal basically immediately, and insists he'll just find someone else:

AC: :33 < tavros im sorry i cant be on your team :(( AC: :33 < im not allowed AT: oH, AT: tHAT'S OKAY, AT: tHEN i GUESS HE SAID NO, tHEN, ... AC: :33 < hmm purrhaps AC: :33 < but i still f33l bad AT: i'LL FIND ANOTHER PLAYER, iT'S NOT A BIG DEAL, AT: gOOD LUCK, bEING, AT: oN THE BLUE TEAM, AC: :33 < ok thanks :((

But, perhaps most strikingly, is the way he leaves his good friend Gamzee on read after Gamzee suggests... gasp... intimacy.

TC: WhEn wE Up aNd sTaRt tO KiCk aT ThIs rEd TeAm NoIsE, TC: YoU ShOuLd mAkE YoUr wAy tO GeT YoUr hAnG On aT My hIvE. AT: oH, yES, tOTALLY, TC: We cOuLd sPlIt a tIn oF ThE PiMpEsT SnEeZe i gOt oN HaNd, BaKeD Up aLl sPeCiAl fOr yOu. TC: AnD ThEn mAyBe mAkE OuT A LiTtLe. AT: uH, TC: ;o) AT: , AT: ,,

It freaks him out, and he's never seen hanging with Gamzee again. And this is a huge shame, because not only is Tavros one of the only people who is nice to Gamzee and appreciates his religious beliefs, but Gamzee is one of the only people who hears out Tavros's genuine insecurities and desires without making fun of him:

AT: tHE ONLY THING MORE FLY THAN THE RHYMES, AT: i'M SAYING TO EXPRESS ALL MY MALICES, AT: iS THE ABILITY HE HAD i WISH WAS MINE, AT: iNSTEAD OF i GUESS, THIS EXCESSIVE PARALYSIS, TC: (lOoK OuT FoR ThE HoOk bRo!!!) TC: GeT OfFa tHoSe wHeElS, gEt oFfA ThOsE WhEeLs. TC: If mIrAcLeS ArEn't fAkE He'lL GeT OfFa tHoSe wHeElS! AT: bUT HIGH, iN THIS CASE, hAS DOUBLE THE MEANING, AT: iT MEANS HE CAN FLY, pLUS DOES HIGH SELF ESTEEMING, AT: tHAT'S TWO THINGS HE HAS, tHAT i'D RATHER WERE MINE, AT: hIS TWO FLAPPY WINGS, aND hIS BIG HEALTHY SPINE, AT: oOPS, AT: tHAT'S THREE THINGS,,, TC: GeT OfFa tHoSe wHeElS, gEt oFfA ThOsE WhEeLs. TC: If mIrAcLeS ArEn't fAkE He'lL GeT OfFa tHoSe wHeElS!

(Compare:)

PAT: i'M SORT OF, lYING ON vRISKA'S FLOOR RIGHT NOW, PAT: lIKE, iN HER BLOCK, PAT: lYING DOWN, PAT: uHH, yOU KNOW, bECAUSE i CAN'T WALK, CCG: OH NO SHIT REALLY??? CCG: YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS, WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN.

He isn't able to do a REAL self-confidence at least until he gives Vriska the bird and flies away, for the first time asserting that he thinks she's an asshole and doesn't actually want or need her validation or approval. After that, he's able to convince a ghost army to follow him using friendship and asking and niceness. Breath powers! Also Page powers! Also actual self-esteems! Although I don't personally hold anything after Game Over as anything more than soft canon, I think we can still see a fairly straightforward character arc reach a natural conclusion there.

But as to why I specifically think him and Gamzee are destined for pale, despite what appears to be flushed leanings from Gamzee's end, and despite the fact that I usually believe what the comic tells me, is because what brief few interactions we see between them are very much pale in nature, and it would be kind of narratively bizarre if Gamzee were set up to have a failed moirallegiance - the quadrant described as "soul mates" - without managing to find his real soul mate after. And who's it going to be? Equius? Or the guy that Gamzee literally says he feels "at chill with" talking to?

Gamzee kissing Tavros's corpse is often used as evidence for his desire for flushed, but I disagree - however Gamzee feels about Tavros romantically, kissing a dead player is how you revive them, so it reads to me - especially given how sad Gamzee is about Tavros dying - more like a desperate act to bring him back. Lest we forget, Terezi also gives it a try, and Karkat kisses Kanaya for the same reason - the reality that their extra lives are gone hasn't sunk in yet for these 13 year old kids, so they must try revival even if they know it won't work.

Moreover, Gamzee indirectly describes Tavros as his "best friend," after having called Karkat that through most of the game, and having an implied pale crush on Karkat during that time.

TC: YOU MOTHER FUCKING KNOW, BROTHER. TC: its the fuckin puppet. TC: THE ONE THAT'S ALL GOT TO BE MY BEST FUCKING FRIEND I GOT NOW. TC: now that my other buddy managed to be having his head chopped off. :oC

Moreover moreover, what Karkat cites as being the cause of their moirallegiance's failure is Gamzee's religious beliefs:

KARKAT: HE STARTED GETTING SO UNBELIEVABLY SELF SATISFIED AND PIOUS, LIKE WAY MORE THAN HE EVER WAS BEFORE. KARKAT: LIKE HE'S JUST SO COMPLETELY CONVINCED HE'S FOUND HIS CALLING, THAT THIS SESSION IS THE GATEWAY TO THE PROMISED LAND WHERE HE'LL FULFILL HIS DESTINY. KARKAT: HE'S SO CAUGHT UP IN HIS IDIOTIC SCHEMES HE COULDN'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT ME ANYMORE.

Which are explicitly what Tavros invites Gamzee to speak on, and appreciates:

AT: yEAHHH, yOU CAN TALK ABOUT THE CLOWN THINGS, wHICH, AT: i DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND EVER, bUT THAT'S OKAY, AT: bECAUSE IT'S KIND OF FUNNY, AT: wHEREAS, i'LL ADDRESS SOME TOPICS PERTAINING TO MY INTERESTS, AT: aND i GUESS, pERSONAL MOTIFS, TC: YeAh! FuCk YeAh, ThAt Be HoW sHiT's AlL uSuAlLy Up AnD fUcKiN lOcKeD bRo. ... AT: dO YOU HAVE TIME FOR, mY MIRACLES, rELIGIOUS FRIEND, }:) TC: Do yOu gEt yOuR NoTiCe oN Of tHe mIrAcLeS AT: sO MANY, uH, gRATUITOUS EXPLETIVE, mIRACLES, tHE MAGIC MOTHER, aLSO eXPLETIVE, mIRACLES, TC: FuCk yEs, HeReS WhErE ThE SlAm tUrNs tO NoThIn bUt hOnKs... TC: HoNk hOnK HoNk hOnK HoNk hOnK HoNk TC: HoNk hOnK HoNk hOnK HoNk hOnK HoNk AT: HONK, TC: FuUuUuUuUuUuUuUuUuCk! AT: iT'S LESS APPROPRIATE FOR ME TO DO THE HONKS, tHAN YOU, bUT THAT WAS STILL GREAT, TC: YeAh, BrO. yEaH!!! AT: tHE SLAMS WERE TRULY PRIME, aND, AT: yOUR RELIGIOUS VIEWS, tHOUGH i DON'T SHARE THEM, aRE, AT: rEASONABLY INSPIRATIONAL, AT: i THINK i'M IN THE PROCESS OF RELEASING AT LEAST ONE TEAR,

But also in Tavros's single conversation with Gamzee, we see Tavros stand up to a highblood:

TC: :o) HoNkHoNkHoNkHoNkHoNk AT: }:o), hEH, TC: hAhAh FuUuUuCk, YoU sToLe My FuCkIn NoSe BrO! TC: WhAt GoT yOu EvEn Up ThE gUmPtIoN tO aLl FuCkIn Do ThE sHiT lIkE tHaT? AT: eRR, i DON'T KNOW, iT'S JUST, AT: kIND OF THE OBVIOUS THING TO DO, AT: sTICK THE CIRCLE IN FRONT OF THE DOTS, aND, bEHIND THE BENDY ONE, AT: pLUS, oH YEAH, mY HORNS, TC: hAhAhAhA. AT: mAYBE WE CAN SLAM ABOUT IT, ... TC: fUuUuCk, So FuCkIn FrEsH. TC: YoU nEeD tO bE sLaPpEd FuCkIn SiLlY wItH a MoUtH lIkE tHaT! hAhA. AT: aND, iF YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH IT, AT: tHEN i SUGGEST YOU GO AND RAP IT DUDE,

He feels safe with Gamzee, enough to take a bit of an attitude with him, enough to open up about his insecurities about his disability and how much he wishes he was like Pupa Pan, and Gamzee explicitly states he feels calm when he talks to Tavros, which is the stated function of a moirallegiance.

TC: Me tOo, BrO, yOu mOtHeR FuCkIn kNoW ThErE Be sOmE Of mY EyE's RoYaL JeLlY To gO WiTh yOuR EmOtIoNaL pEaNuT BuTtEr. AT: wHOA, aHA, hA, TC: ThIs iS BeAuTiFuL, dUdE, i fEeL So aT ChIlL WiTh yOu. AT: yEAH, fRIENDLINESS WITH YOU IS, pRETTY MUCH ALWAYS NICE, aND FUN TO HAVE,

And the thing is, trolls are constantly getting into moirallegiances when they want to be flushed (Eridan, Kanaya), having palecrushes when they want to be friends (Gamzee), and winding up flushed with their moirail (pale solfef is forshadowed in the same breath as pale erikar, and they don't seem to confirm a matespritship until after Sollux's actual flushed crush, Aradia, explodes). Especially for Gamzee, who was neglected by his lusus and struggles with social interaction to the point where he feels like he has to hide his real self (casteist beliefs, constant talk of religion and murder, which, by the way, come out when he talks to Tavros), it'd be easy for him to mistake the "instinctive attraction" of moirallegiance for the passions of matespritship.

These thoughts are all pretty disorganized - I'm really sorry, it's super late/early for me and I'm exhausted for other reasons - but I hope that that . was what you wanted? hahah

[relaxxattack]

Hi i want to thank you for the QPR vs Moirail venn diagram. Its a rly excellent way of showing the difference. My gripe is about human romance, and how people will either 1- conflate it in a 1:1 ratio with Matesprit, or 2- claim it is “all the quadrants”. I personally feel both are false equivalency, and that the human romance is similar to both pale and red rom* and SO i was wondering if you agreed w that assessment, or if not, if you have the time to explain your thoughts on human traditional romance vs the quadrants (perhaps w another nifty graph)?

* which is why Rose’s destructive tendencies during sburb & her descent into addiction on the meteor were not addressed by kanaya, who feared palezoning herself like she did with vriska

OH MY GOD! YES!!!! why am i getting such great asks today?!

no, you're EXACTLY right. people are constantly conflating matespritship in those two ways; "all of the quadrants" being especially irritating (since Some humans occasionally argue, Occasionally in a kinky way, and i guess that means that they totally have all of kismesissitude covered?? :/).

matespritship is its very own thing. of the two interpretations above, i feel the idea that it's 1:1 to human romance is the closest to true. i mean, that's what they literally say in the comic, for gog's sake.

humans do not truly incorporate moirallegiance, kismesissitude, or auspisticism into their lives in any meaningful way. while it's possible for humans to sometimes have romances that might seem more like one of those than matespritship, they're considered abnormal or toxic-- and they often ARE, because humans do not have the same sort of biological drives or social understanding of these things that trolls do. humans do not understand the true needs and ramifications, or even the ROMANCE of moirallegiance. humans would be hard pressed to understand a kismesissitude in a 'healthy' way. i don't even need to mention how auspisticism flies over people's heads.

so, yes, humans only have the one quadrant. (and karkat vantas, i am sorry to say, is not going to "human date" anyone as the "solution to his quadrant problems". this would literally be the same as him trying to stick only to matespritship, and we all know exactly how that turned out.)

however! matespritship is not an exact 1:1 on human romance either. the direct quote from the comic is;

"[It's] the closest parallel to the human concept of romance trolls have." [x]

this is not really expanded on much in the text, honestly-- the intricacies of the social and biological traits of matespritship aren't shown enough for us to draw clear distinctions between them and human romance.

however, i think you're right that rose and kanaya are the best example we have of that-- despite them both aiming for matespritship, they have cultural misunderstanding quite often from some of rose's flirting, or even just her needs, crossing wires into a pale threshold that kanaya is weary of.

it's entirely possible that the differences between troll and human "hearts" might have made it difficult for kanaya to really connect with rose's problems and discuss them with her.

which might explain why when things go "better" for them in the retcon, they're portrayed reading a book on troll romance together:

it could be implied here that searching for a more in-depth understanding of quadrants actually helped rose with her ability to connect to kanaya-- and maybe, reading into it a little too hard here, this also could have been an opportunity for kanaya to work through her vriska-based hangups with the pale quadrant. that's entirely speculation on my part, though.

at the end of the day, we don't really KNOW enough about the details of quadrants for me to paint a clear picture of how matespritship differs from human romance. i mean, i could try, but it would certainly be more of a headcanon post than an analysis one!

[thewebcomicsreview]

Homestuck 2 updated early this month, and we're Yiffy now. It's a Valentine's Day miracle!

Yiffy was one of the most interesting characters in HS2, because literally everyone treated her like shit constantly. Jade's giving her daughter a smooch but also Jade sent her off to a boarding school explicitly because she was embarrassing to acknowledge and also Jade named her child Yiffy Longstocking on a joke and never bothered to change it. In the epilogues, Rose acknowledged that nothing in Candy was "real" and she was joining the rebellion basically for the luls, and one some level Jade and Rose don't think Yiffy is a real three-quarters-human person, and I think they think of her more like an OC in a game they like.

Well, that was my read of HS2, lets see how HSBC handles her.

Oh, this visual is great. Kanaya is so pissed off she's turning into the Ancestor art style in real time. She also kind of looks like Batman, here.

No doubt if your POSSE OF PUBESCENT PUNKS back at school could see you now they'd throw up laughing.

I am suddenly way more interested in Yiffy's gang than I am in half the HS1 cast. What kids join a gang led by a dog girl named Yiffy Longstocking?

Engineering that reprieve might be just about the only real solid your no-show non-mom has ever actually bothered to do for you.

Oh thank christ, there was a part of me worried that Yiffy wouldn't resent her parents for being the second-worst parents in HS2. This is the most interesting thing in the sequels, I think.

TAVVY: ,,, And also, everyone knows you exist now,,, instead of just me,,, TAVVY: And our moms

TAVVY: Wow,,,! YIFFY: TAVVY: You know, i was almost kidnapped,,, once,,, TAVVY: My mom removed the window, after that, TAVVY: Which, um, sucked, TAVVY: Though, i guess you'd know, uh, about that,,,

Oh, interesting. Tavvy knew about Yiffy this whole time? Actually, this and Yiffy's description of him via narration earlier imply they grew up together. I guess that makes sense, since he's Jane's kid and Jade inexplicably put Jane in charge of Yiffy, but he never told Vrissy about her secret sister? That's a bit fucked up, dude. Yiffy's not saying anything (and I hope she doesn't for a long time, until she has something meaningful to say), but her text color is Dave's red, even though she's not related to Dave. Or she is and HSBC is going to retcon HS2's most hated plot point somehow.

Pepis

Look at this ARRANT BEAVIS double fisting those cans of pop

"ARRANT BEAVIS" is a great Homestuckism

The Sylph has been slow boiling, you can tell.

Interesting that Yiffy refers to Kanaya as "The Sylph". I don't know what else she'd call her, I suppose, but Yiffy of all people being the one to mention Classpect is odd.

You've only been around this earth for 15 years, but it's a self-evident fact that there are no useful authorities. Gifted with unimaginable power, their concern only stretches so far as to manhandle those dependent on them, and tangles into ineffectual deadlock the instant it meets a challenge worth addressing. Potential killed for the sake of comfort. True kindness is real, but only for those that bare teeth and break skin. Why should these disingenuous, bystanding, spineless, SELFISH adults get anything they want?

Fuck yes, Yiffy hates all the HS1 characters. I've been hoping for this, she has more beef with them all than even Tavros, and it's a bit of Vriska energy this comic has needed that neither actually Vriska really provides.

Yiffy being the best thing about HS2 was maybe a hot take before, but hopefully it isn't now. She's great.

JADE: and of course you arent obligated to ever forgive me but... i dont want to lose you too! JADE: i love you kanaya JADE: youre my family KANAYA: You Fucked My Wife

This is the best update in the entire comic.

KANAYA: And Though That Travesty Of A Name Is Undoubtedly An Incomprehensibly Offensive Piece Of This Particular Puzzle KANAYA: What I See Is Not An Explanation KANAYA: But A Glossing Over Of The Worst Detail ROSE: Jane.

Yeah, HS2 kind of glossed over Rose/Jade putting TrumpHitler in charge of their literal child. I could copy/paste this whole conversation but basically Kanaya is pointing out that there's like fifty plot holes in Yiffy's backstory and it makes no fucking sense at all and are they going to retcon her to being Jade/Dave's ecto-kid?

ROSE: You've managed to exhume the solemn cadaver of my mother's memory and make her the star of another argument. KANAYA: As If You Ever Bothered To Bury Her ROSE: What does this have to do with anything!? KANAYA: What I Am Doing Is Demonstrating That I Have No Intention To Mediate This Situation KANAYA: Or Pacify It KANAYA: Or Even Be A Little Bit Nice Right Now KANAYA: So Perhaps Youll Actually Take Me Seriously For Once

This is the well-earned sass we've been waiting for since Yiffy's reveal.

ROSE: But more than anything else, I took her up on it because it felt oddly ROSE: inevitable. ROSE: Anyways, ROSE: Deep down, I knew it didn’t matter. ROSE: However we handled it. ROSE: Whatever hurt we caused. ROSE: It was never that serious.

Man, I'm glad that I'm live-blogging and put my read of the situation up as I went because I fucking called it. Yes! I am capable of retaining information when I read instead of staring at the screen slack-jawed.

ROSE: I knew you would forgive me. KANAYA: Rose KANAYA: When Did You Stop Trying JADE: yeah rose!!!!! JADE: what the fuck!!!!

Oh shit, Candy Rose is evil?

JADE: b-but i just dont want things to get even worse!!!!!! KANAYA: Then stop pretending that my feelings are top priority KANAYA: AND TRY BEING HONEST FOR ONCE JADE: WHAT DOES IT EVEN MATTER!!!!!!! KANAYA: Excuse Me? JADE: you heard me! JADE: you were wronged kanaya! JADE: the truth cant change that JADE: saying it just fucking hurts more JADE: what does that accomplish? JADE: its so embarrassing, would you even get it if i had?

JADE: you have no idea what its like out there JADE: how traumatizing dating regular citizens was JADE: imagine trying to love someone who already knows every available detail about you JADE: who has *opinions* on what happened to you as a child JADE: who assumes youre indestructible JADE: newsflash it fucking sucks!!!!!!! because no matter how nice they were JADE: they didnt want to know me JADE: they wanted to date the god of space

I have no notes, this is great and I'm thrilled everyone is mad now.

JADE: so everyone could lecture me again on how "bad" my "boundaries" are? ROSE: (I did that one time.) JADE: you want bad boundaries JADE: do you know how many people would be waiting outside public bathrooms to talk to me about their problems? JADE: this one guy randomly started apologizing because they cooked their hamster in the microwave! JADE: and they looked so sad... i had to hug them and say it was ok JADE: but it was not ok! JADE: they murdered their hamster! Rose: Ugh... JADE: and their other hamster killed itself KANAYA: JADE JADE: out of loneliness!!!!!

What the fuck, this is amazing.

The art here is great, by the way.

JADE: millions of people told me they loved me JADE: but i was never a real person to them JADE: i couldn't let that happen to yiffy too KANAYA: What JADE: i had to save her kanaya! JADE: give her the chance to grow up as a normal kid with a normal life

Jade she's half-dog and she's named Yiffy Fucking Longstocking, that ship has sailed. How are people not going to know she's your child?

Oh, okay. She wears a hat. Sure.

This art is so good!

KANAYA: Even If I Didnt Want Her KANAYA: She Was Already Here

*Makes a note in my "ominous foreshadowing lines journal*

What. Why does Jade have a Frankenstein in her inventory? What's that about?

And that was the update. Honestly? Banger, easily the best HSBC update yet. I could, and if I didn't have DnD in five minutes perhaps would (and perhaps still will!) write a whole essay on this. Phenomenal. A+

[davekat-sucks]

It's probably a horrible thing that when I'm searching through fandom content and I read someone saying "You know you are reblogging art from pedophiles" I assume that it's an exaduration. I've been called a pedophile before for saying Rose is hot when refering to an aged up version of her. Are the people making hs2 pedos because they made rose and kanaya hot and drool over them constantly? pedo is a word thats lost almost all meaning to me.

People think that if a character has a canon age in a series, they cannot grow up or age up within the passage of time. And if you are older than that character, you are a creep. That's why you get bullshit like the Miku being canonically 16, ignoring the fact artists and music producers could make her into anything else. As well as the fact that she's just a computer program. For Homestuck's case, I think it is because either A. They forget the characters have become older now by Epilogues and Homestuck 2. They are technically legal adults. But their nostalgia for the franchise still has them thinking they still look like their kid selves. The whole updated art was in part to address and remind audiences that they are older. The cast having changed both physically and mentally. or B. Some people think that when the human kids reached God Tier, they don't age as fast or never age as they would when they were mortal. So the Beta/Alpha Kids are forever young teens when they had died and gain powers. Part of it didn't help they still looked like the same by the end of the comic and snapchats that shows them still looking young, despite that characters like Karkat would be 20 years old upon Earth C being fully developed. This misconception of the Beta/Alpha kids being young and immortal didn't help by Homestuck 2 when the old art still as them looking like their young selves. One could argue they only kept it for the sake of familiarity, but it makes others forget that the human kids still get older even as demi-immortals. And of course, WhatPumpkin at the time, were lazy fucks.

[thegoodthebadthealternative]

The Good, The Bad, and The Alternative: a homestuck fanfiction. Chapter 34, an excerpt:

"Well, that sounds better than no plan, I suppose," Kanaya agreed. "We'll take a table far enough away that you don't feel like we're hovering."

"And we'll keep an eye out for you going mister cool guy mode if you flub too many open and honest type behaviors," Vriska added.

"Goddamnit, you were eavesdropping." Dave sighed, swinging his legs up so he could sit on the counter sideways, able to see both of them. "Was there any part of this convo that actually stayed private?"

"I could lie if it makes you feel better," Vriska said, shoving her hand in her jeans pocket. She pulled out a crumbled fifty-dollar bill. "Is this enough to cover these clothes? Walmart shirts are fine for casual wear, but if I look super schlubby, I'll stand out more."

"Hmm, I think that works out to just enough," Kanaya lied, taking the proffered fifty. She grabbed the security magnet remover from behind the counter. "Dave, can you help her get the tags off?"

"Nah, she's being hella shady." He refused the proffered tool. "Vriska, you're not gonna go gossiping to John about my tragicomic ass behavior, are you?"

"Depends," she replied, idly fiddling with the magnet on her tank top. Casually, she added, "how sure are we that Jade isn't a succubus?"

Kanaya sputtered. "What?"

"Seconded. What?" Dave chimed in.

"Wellllllll, the logic seems pretty obvious to me." Vriska cleared her throat, flicking the security tag onto the counter, which she'd apparently worked free without the magnet remover. She looked up at Kanaya, addressing her directly. "So, picture this. John and I are making cupcakes, right? John's in this cute ruffled apron with flowers on it. Some banter ensues- Dave calls him a housewife, John threatens to withhold the goods if he doesn't quit the jokes, and next thing I know, Dave is literally begging on his knees, hands clasped like a groveling peasant as he praises John's skills."

Dave groaned in embarrassment. "I swear it sounded better in my head as I was doing it."

"Psh, I bet." Vriska waggled her eyebrows. "So. He crawls in close, like just barely out of dick-sucking range, and then they just stare at each other, leaving me smelling way too much information about the direction their thoughts were wandering. John's dad was in the room and the dude totally forgot, his pupils were blown like he was on ecstasy. Absolutely atrocious, he's lucky humans can't smell or see that kind of detail from the other side of the room." 

"Dude, no, he was just staring at my antics. He's straight." Dave shook his head. 

"Do you need me to spell out exactly what I was smelling?" Vriska asked incredulously, whipping her head around to stare at Dave. "Maybe he's just so fucking drawn in by your cool guy shtick that he thinks you're the straight one, so he isn't talking flirty or whatever. But the body keeps the score on that kind of stuff, and he can't hide the reactions happening underneath the skin." 

"But what does that have to do with Jade?" Kanaya asked, trying to draw Vriska's intensity back in her direction. 

"Oh, just that John's first favorite subject was Dave, pre-party. They did that whole rap thing against Tavros and Gamzee, I thought they were two, maybe three drinks away from a successful maneuver on the dance floor. But then Jade shows up, and suddenly John is-" Vriska crossed her pointer and middle finger. "Like this with her for the rest of the party, even though Dave nearly got his brain melted. It was fucking weird . Then he doesn't even stop by to say hi to us, not one, but two days in a row, because he's too busy in the morning getting ready to hang out with Jade? Makes me think, maybe she's pulling some heavy seduction magic."

For a moment, the trio were silent, absorbing Vriska's words.

"Are you a conspiracy theorist? Genuinely asking," Dave said, crossing his arms.

Do you think Vriska is blowing things out of proportion? Read on to find out!

The Good, The Bad, and The Alternative (449733 words) by Madam_Melon_Meow, sarcasticcelery Chapters: 34/? Fandom: Homestuck Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence Relationships: Nepeta Leijon/Equius Zahhak, Sollux Captor/Aradia Megido, Eridan Ampora & Feferi Peixes, Kanaya Maryam & Dave Strider, Rose Lalonde & Rose's Mom | Beta Roxy Lalonde, Dave's Bro | Beta Dirk Strider & Dave Strider, Beta Kids & Beta Trolls, Jade Harley & Rose's Mom | Beta Roxy Lalonde, Dad Egbert & John Egbert, Kanaya Maryam/Vriska Serket, Eridan Ampora/Dave Strider Characters: John Egbert, Rose Lalonde, Dave Strider, Jade Harley, Becquerel (Homestuck), Kanaya Maryam, Vriska Serket, Karkat Vantas, Terezi Pyrope, Aradia Megido, Tavros Nitram, Sollux Captor, Gamzee Makara, Eridan Ampora, Feferi Peixes, Nepeta Leijon, Equius Zahhak, Virgin Mother Grub (Homestuck), Vriska's Lusus, Gl'bgolyb (Homestuck), Dad Egbert, Rose's Mom | Beta Roxy Lalonde, Dave's Bro | Beta Dirk Strider, Aurthour (Homestuck), The Condesce (Homestuck), Serenity (Homestuck) Additional Tags: inspired by Kim Harrison’s The Hollows, Alternate Universe - Urban Fantasy, Humanstuck, Alternate Universe - No Sburb Session, Human Lusii (Homestuck), Alternate Universe - Post-Apocalypse, Demigods, Vampires, multi POV: all beta trolls & humans, The Horrorterrors (Homestuck), Non-Abusive Dave's Bro | Beta Dirk Strider, Long Lost/Secret Relatives, Violence, Magic, Aged-Up Character(s), the kids and trolls range between 16 and 20, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder - PTSD, Vriska Serket has PTSD, Memory Loss, Scars, Unhealthy Coping Mechanisms, Plot Twists, Unreliable Narrator, Rose Lalonde and Dave Strider Are Not Related, Skaianet Laboratories, beta guardians are not alpha kids and troll parents are not ancestors, monsterstuck, Break Up, Alcohol Abuse/Alcoholism, Ship Tags Will Update As They Become Relevant, Good Person Gamzee Makara, Suicide Attempt by Proxy, Dissociation, Victim Blaming, Abusive Parents, sexually active teenagers, Underage Drinking Series: Part 1 of Monsterstuck: Suburban Catastrophe Summary: Three years ago, on John Egbert's birthday, the world ended. Three years ago, Jade Harley and Vriska Serket vanished alongside billions of others. Three years ago, the apocalypse arrived, transforming everything and revealing much that was hidden to those who remained. Three years ago, the meteors (mostly!) missed Houston, and that's where John's headed today. In Houston, Rose Lalonde searches for washed-up traces of magic, warily overseen by Kanaya and her old friend Dave. In Texas, the newly dubbed "alternatives" maintain a newfound alliance with the humans they saved--and a wary truce with the Hunter forces that once kept all these creatures of fable and fairytale a secret from the world of man. And here, in Houston, the world is about to change once again. An urban fantasy monsterstuck AU featuring the beta kids, beta trolls, and their guardians. Updates every other Saturday!

[gmanmedias]

I DON’T HAVE AN ADDRESS AS A MATTER OF FACT BUT I GUESS YOU TRIED TO DROP ME A LINE

🪡 🪡 🪡

💚 💚 💚

🧵 🧵 🧵

14/37: Kanaya Maryam

[gem-tavvy]

IMPROMPTU TAVROS NITRAM WRITING COURSE

VOL. 2 ~ OF HEROES AND VILLAINS

(note: originally this was not gonna be a fully fledged tavros writing post. it started as just talking about tavros' culpability in jake harley's death, but later i get into some heavier stuff that i feel is worth addressing. in order to write tavros, you have to understand what he goes through in canon itself.

a lot of people will tell you that tavros was "done dirty" by homestuck, or that hussie didn't do a good job of writing him. i will not ever say this. i believe that in order to understand and appreciate tavros, you need to understand and appreciate what happens to him in canon. even the bad.

if all you see in tavros is his nice interactions with other characters, you are missing the point. tavros is a deeply tragic character who interacts deeply with a lot of homestuck's greater themes. childhood and adulthood, loss of innocence, abuse, trauma, heroism, independence. all of it.

i don't think homestuck would have been better if all the bad stuff that happened to tavros didn't happen. that would have made it a far less interesting and impactful story. and even if i would have enjoyed a happier ending for him, i understand that that was not what the author wanted to write and portray. because in the end, i did not write homestuck. neither did you. all we can do is enjoy and analyze it. we cannot demand any more from it.

before i get to the actual post, i also wanna state for the record that i think the idea that tavros didn't get a satisfying arc is just flat-out wrong. but i'll save that topic for when i get the chance to delve into GHOST tavros, because that storyline is very dear to me.)

all i'm saying is that the idea that tavros "killed" grandpa harley feels like a misunderstanding. technically speaking, the only thing tavros DID was commune with bec to redirect a bullet!

think about his wording here. "aS A WONDERFUL BONUS AND COINCIDENCE," "aND AS FORTUNE WOULD HAVE IT,"

tavros's only intent was to save jade's life. we should REALLY be blaming bec here for jake's death, not tavros. imagine if you told or asked someone to save another person from being crushed by a falling piano, and in order to do that, they threw another innocent bystander under it instead. is it YOUR fault that the person you delegated to thought a murder was the best way to achieve your goal? probably not!

and of course, when tavros recounted this tale to jade, he spoke about it as if it was a good thing. culturally speaking, for trolls - a child and a lusus is a natural familial unit, and adults are fucking SCARY. his nonchalance about the situation was understandable up until jade explained it to him.

now, what tavros is REALLY guilty of is being incredibly awkward when trying to ask a girl out. i see a lot of people take this part in a really bad faith and uncharitable light. they see him as a creepy, predatory weirdo, but that's deeply unfair.

you have to remember how much bullshit he's gone through at this point. he spent a lot of time being harassed by vriska, but when aradiabot beat her to near-death and she tried to psychically convince him to put her out of her misery, he became deeply traumatized, and fell into a deep depression for the remainder of the game. he spent more time asleep on prospit than awake.

after the trolls had to hide away in the veil, kanaya and equius collaborated to saw off tavros's legs ahd replace them with robotic ones.

this was very explicitly not something tavros asked for, but something imposed on him for "his best interest," as it were. desperate for something to ground himself, tavros hyperfocuses on his new legs as a source of self esteem. he feels awful after the vriska god-tier incident, but maybe if he can be more like her, robot prosthesis included, he'll be better! she kept making fun of him for the disability she caused. she wanted him to be like her. now he is!

that's why he tries to meddle in jade's past. why he starts referring to himself with the ableist, derogatory terms vriska used against him. why he rejects rufio and proclaims his utter fakeness. tavros is completely unraveling at this point in the story. this conversation is deeply uncomfortable to witness, not just because tavros is coming across as an awkward creep, but because this is the compounded culmination of everything vriska did to him. all her tormenting, her manipulation, over all the time she's known him. tavros is at his rock bottom, and is trying to emulate vriska in a last-ditch effort to regain some control over his life.

after tavros gets to experience the singular sensation of being on the other side of his experience with vriska's domineering advances, (though i should reinforce here that tavros backed down pretty quickly after jade's rejection and understood her feelings) he gets contacted by vriska herself.

vriska, of course, sees his attempts to emulate her for what it is. on some level i am sure it burned her just a little to know that that's how he saw her - if that's how he tried to mimic her. with jade not reinforcing vriska's method with reciprocation and vriska herself tearing him down definitively (and reinforcing the idea that she isn't really even worthy of emulation; she helped create bec noir, endangering everyone) tavros doesn't have anything left. all the walls are torn down. his childhood innocence was destroyed. his chance at a normal life, gone. romance, utterly tainted. every single fantasy and bit of joy he could prop himself up on was systematically burned to a crisp, and he had only one thing left.

anger. pure, righteous anger, the kind he should have been feeling this whole time.

it took her a long time, but she did it. she got tavros to "grow up," in some way or another. his whole life, he's just wanted to keep to himself. to play games, to rap, to have fun. to be a kid. but she paralyzed him. she traumatized him. and when the last fantasy he was clinging on to was the idea that maybe vriska was right, that she was a good person all along, that she was helping him - she disillusioned him.

this part of [s] wake is kind of the perfect summation to this. the host plush: a symbol of his childhood innocence. a game he used to play that made him happy. fiduspawn - a game in which the host plush is destroyed in order to give the a fiduspawn life. by decapitating it, tavros is at last symbolically shedding his childhood, and by using it to threaten vriska with death, also shedding his natural aversion to conflict and violence.

if this were any other story, tavros would have triumphed over vriska, slaying the treacherous bully and being all the more heroic because of it. but this is homestuck. tavros was heroic, sure, but being heroic isn't always a good thing. sometimes being a hero is the worst thing you can be. vriska was a hero. bro strider was a hero. bro strider's heroism broke dave - made him loathe the idea of heroism. sure, dave never accomplished his destiny, but he's happier.

tavros was being heroic in this scene. but there's a reason that gods in homestuck can only ever be killed by heroic means or just. heroism is a heavy burden.

that's one of the most important lessons in homestuck.

[alterfall]

Kanaya serket my beloved

I meant to reply to this around the time the Kanaya comm was posted like 'surprise! lucky you!' but I forgot :P. Instead, I'll yap a bit about Kanaya's design.

Lampopo isn't a Homestuck artist by trade, so I wanted to make sure I pointed out the details and discrepancies between drawings. Many characters in AF had little details or tweaks made to their looks over time that were solidified in the 2024 recap post, but for Kanaya specifically, the main changes made were that her horns are a bit sharper and her hair shape was tweaked ever so slightly (this was another thing that happened to a lot of characters, making their cuts more 'shaped' so as for easier reproduction).

Some other details...

Making this 'style guide' was a good opportunity to even further address ambiguities in Kanaya's design. What does the back of her outfit look like? What *is* she wearing on her feet, anyway? Despite our attempts to create a sense of cohesion between drawings, I also wanted to stress that - much like a comic or cartoon character - ALTERFALL (and HOMESTUCK characters in general) are malleable in terms of things like proportions, so I encouraged Lampopo to not hold back in drawing the character how they liked (though I used some complex wording that was a bit overwhelming to them at first, lol, be kind to your multilingual artists!).

By the way, we didn't really discuss the whole dress spokes thing after the art was done, but Hydro did mention that Kanaya is probably wearing long boots. In hindsight, it would make way more sense if Kanaya had three dress spokes at the front AND the back, with single ones at the sides to make up the 8... I was just staring at that initial fullbody where the skirt fans out a lot, lol. Either way, the idea is that it would be like an 8-pointed star if viewed from above.

We also talked about what the back of her top might look like. Here's my original:

Looks kind of like it'll fall off...

Amelia drew this one, which is similar to the backless dress Amy Rose wears.

Hydro then sent a few images, with this one being the closest to what they'd had in mind when drawing Kanaya. So this is probably what it'd look like if she turns around in the future.

If you made it this far into the post, you must be a real KANAYA FREAK... Or maybe just a nerd who likes the thoughts that go behind pretty pictures on the internet. In either case, here's a present: The original draft sketches of Kanaya Serket from September 2022, where we drafted all the Trolls on a group drawing website.

The big fancy sketch is by Hydro. The small one at the top is mine, and the cute one off to the right is Amelia's.

While the others were drawing other things, I started with Kanaya, because everyone looked at the idea of a spidery Kanaya Maryam and decided that it was pretty squarely within my writing and design wheelhouse. As these sessions tend to go, we talked about what she'd be like in terms of personality and lore as I did the first sketch. I'll be the first to say that my visual art skills aren't exactly honed to perfection, and I don't really remember if I was planning to draw an outfit or if this was just my way of constructing basic anatomy... But either way, the looming eyes of Spidermom and the shape of her horns can both be seen here.

Amelia's design is where the bells and whistles come in, adding a spidery little outfit and a big emo bang swooping over her face. This is, not-so-subtly, inspired by my personal sona character (AKA what I look like exactly in real life).

Since both images depicting me in ALTERFALL posts have me wearing divine jammies, here's the design specifically getting referenced. The bang, pointy spiderweb-inspired skirt and long boots all made it to the final outfit, though the bang swapped sides. A bun was also added! Hydro and Amelia were sketching at around the same time, so I actually don't recall who came up with the bun first, or if even I may have suggested it out loud.

In general, her hair is meant to look tightly strung-up, but messy and fraying apart - just another thing she's constantly fretting over. It's one of my favourite parts of her design, since it says a lot about her personality as someone who just can't give themselves any slack.

Looking back, Kanaya's design is probably one of, if not the most collaborative one between all of us, since you can trace back so many elements to these three doodles. That's nice. I'm pretty much out of things to say for now, so I hope that you enjoyed this extended yap sesh about what goes into ALTERFALL character designs. Making the style guide itself was really fun, and I'd love to try making some for other characters as well for anyone who's interested.

- SF

[wifegideonnav]

well i… finished act 5 act 2. gonna have to rewatch cascade a bunch of times and probably read the act summary on the wiki but i have officially reached the end of the act

still enjoying it a lot but it’s getting harder and harder to read. summing up a rant i gave my friend, i’m not super in love with the sense of predestined futility - or more accurately, i don’t feel that the narrative has properly addressed that yet and justified why i should be reading about these characters who were like 100x doomed from the start.

there are so many characters and so much happening that nothing is lingered upon, which is nice pacing-wise but not so nice emotional-impact-wise. i also think the “everybody dies a bajillion times and it’s fine until all of a sudden it’s not” thing works against it in a sense, especially when the narrative doesn’t stop to mourn anyone who’s actually dead, bc by the time you realize hey wait maybe like. vriska or dad or feferi/nepeta/equius etc are dead for real it’s been like 200+ pages and you’re like well ok. what do i do here exactly.

and i know that that’s an intentional choice hussie made for how he wanted to craft his narrative - im wishing for things that he deliberately chose not to give. im not trying to say that these choices are flaws in his writing, just that as an audience member i tend to prefer the tlt method of dealing with death, where one main character dies and then the entire next book is about another ripping herself apart because of it.

im not giving up by any means, or even saying that this is what’s dominating my reading experience. like i said im still enjoying myself and appreciate most of the creative decisions that hussie is making. it can just feel very draining i suppose, watching these characters i’ve come to care about - almost all of whom are literal children - fighting so hard so futilely, and so far, imo the narrative hasn’t paid that off. however, with that out of the way, here are (some of, bc this shit was long as hell) my thoughts on the act, more or less in order:

i have literally no interest in johnkat. probably partially bc my friend is so into davekat that ive been conditioned to just wait for that to happen but also bc they have no chemistry. sorry to any johnkat shippers out there but idc it’s boring

i have slightly more but still negligible interest in john/vriska. probably bc i… don’t really care about john. sorry to any john stans out there but idc he’s boring

karkat and terezi sharing a keyboard to argue my beloved

rose my beloved. but also. sweetie :/

vriska my beloved. but also. SWEETIE :/

kanaya my beloved. you’re doing great no notes

oh yeah dave and terezi manipulated the stock market. still don’t 100% understand that but whatever good for them

yeah ok the dream bubbles. christ. like ok i GET it but they’re still annoying

i love jade’s dynamic with karkat she really goes from “teehee im just a silly little girl haha” to “im going to eviscerate this motherfucker”

bec prototyping himself was genuinely such a good reveal

is it just me or is john's power like. way lamer than the other kids' lmao. like it's still cool, def better than nothing, but come on

not too much to say abt the exiles but i love them

also with all the fucking timeline bullshit that's going on i literally can't wait to reach the end and reread with the uhsc mod that lets you follow a specific person's timeline. i canNOT keep track of what's happening when for who

it is literally so funny that vriska has been the cause of jade's narcolepsy this entire time. like wow girl you really took the opportunity to be a massive dick to her huh

LET'S BE SANTA

frogs. ok sure. why not.

fuck doc scratch all my homies hate doc scratch. i will say though. he is a fantastic character.

holy shit eridan and gamzee snapping and killing like everyone. that was buckwild what the fuck. not gonna lie idc that equius is dead, and nepeta, feferi, and tavros were never my faves. but got damn it sucks that they're dead. (ostensibly. still not one thousand percent convinced)

sad karkat :(

murderous kanaya :D

WV "DRIVING" AHHHH

oh god the ancestors. sorry but i simply do not care about that shit. like i know that they're actually relevant but. :/

also i don't like the trope of chains of events being echoed across generations. like damn get your own plot. also it ties into that determinism and futility that i'm grappling with

i will say though. mindfang mentally thanking redglare for taking her arm because then her battle against his honorable tyranny because it made it "a fair fight"? hot. i'm brave enough to say it.

aradia is cool as fuck. i wish we got more of her/her personality

aradia's ancestor is also cool as fuck. sucks that literally nothing she did to resist her fate worked or mattered

the scratch stuff is genuinely interesting narratively/in terms of a plot device. again it still sucks that the beta kids aren't actually going to get to win the game themselves. like i assume they'll be talking to/guiding the alpha kids but like. god it's so unfairrr i bet there'll be angst about this

rose going grimdark is so fun. also LMAO john trying to chat with her in that flash game portion

TEREZI god i love her. sucks that she killed vriska tho bc i love her and also i ship them. oh well murder is not necessarily a roadblock to them getting together. troll romance sure is weird. i have hope in my heart.

vriska isn't dead forever bc no she isnt <3

the betty crocker shit. is funny. and also stupid as hell.

SAD KARKAT :((

ok i guess the stuff about karkat's ancestor and the history of the troll race is kinda interesting. whatever.

everyone's in love/hate with gamzee all of a sudden?? literally why. troll romance sure is FUCKING confusing

that was a pretty anticlimactic climax to the gamzee situation, gotta say

cascade was confusing as fuck i don't have thoughts on it yet

so yeah that's it! if you're still reading, why? let me know what your thoughts on act 5 act 2 were when you read it, or your thoughts on my thoughts lol. just pls no spoilers for anything past cascade!!

[kelebriel]

So I’ve been rereading Homestuck lately. Considering the whole cafe thing coming up, I think the finale of HS^2 is going to release this upcoming Homestuck Day, so I wanna be prepared! And it’s been fuckin forever since I read it/the epilogues/HS^2, so I need to refresh myself! And I wanted to reread it, so get off my jock. So far, I’ve finished the first three acts, including the intermission. As I’ve been rereading it, I wanna catalogue some thoughts, below the cut! There’s gonna be discussion of animal death, abuse, and slurs, as well as just general spoilers, if you still care about that but haven’t read it yet. Can’t imagine why you haven’t read it yet, it’s been years. Jeez, man. First thought: Man, Homestuck is still a good fucking webcomic. I’m having a lot of fun reading it again.

-Homestuck starts pretty slow. I always knew that, but going back to it and man it takes a while to get going, action-wise

-Data Structure For Assholes pretty much could be written by Karkat, if Karkat wasn’t abysmal at that also.

-Rereading makes it baffling that anyone ever came to the conclusion that Dave was actually cool. He’s constantly being a doof and begging for attention from practically the word go. -So I know this might be controversial, but the r-slurs thrown around are actually kind of accurate. I was 13 when Homestuck started, and let me tell you, we were absolutely throwing slurs at each other. I can’t say for certain how much it’s being used now, being nearly thirty years old, but there’s a verisimilitude to that now. Not saying it’s necessary or anything, I don’t know for sure about that, and it’s probably an answer that changes on a person to person basis, but it was how teens were talking back in the day.

-The years have come and gone, and will continue to come and go. It’s already been nearly a decade since Homestuck’s heyday. But it doesn’t matter how much time passes; Homestuck music will continue to kick ass. I got fucking goosebumps during the EoA3 animation!  -Boy oh boy Jade could have been real bad, huh? From a narrative, OOC standpoint. This girl who lives in a temple island, who has futuristic technology and is a crack shot with a rifle and is also a nuclear physicist, whose grandpa was a billionaire and whose current guardian is a dog with powers over space and time, who mysteriously and inexplicably (at least at first) knows how things are going to go before they happen? Could have been a Mary-Sue-shaped millstone around the neck of the whole comic.

-I didn’t remember that Tavros was introduced third out of the twelve trolls. Seems kind of odd, considering how more of a side character he is compared to Karkat and Kanaya, numbers 1 and 2. Not complaining, though, Tavros attempting to troll Dave and getting supremely fucked with in return is still hilarious.

-So we kind of know that Bro was constantly fighting Dave to toughen him up for the Medium and everything. Was it successful? Sure, Dave was traumatized to hell and back by having to sword fight the person who was supposed to be raising him, but he is pretty good with a sword by the time he gets into the game. Although John and Rose are pretty good, too, and neither of them had assigned their strife specibus before that day. Makes me wonder how necessary all the fucked up conditioning really was. I’ll have to keep this in mind as I go forward.

-After their rooftop confrontation, where Bro shatters Dave’s sword and then flies off on a rocket skateboard, he drops his copy of the beta on Dave’s chest. How did he know that Dave needed them? Was that ever addressed? Is there some kind of software on Dave’s computer that tracks what he’s saying to his friends? That’s fucked up!

-The thing I’ve been coming back to the most, that’s been sticking in my head the longest, is Jaspers. I don’t know what it is about him and his fate that preoccupies me more than it did some twelve or so years ago, when I first read the comic. Maybe I’ve just been made more susceptible to pet death, I dunno. That image of a young Rose psychoanalyzing a cat in a suit was fucking adorable, and the flash detailing Rose finding him and the resulting funeral was heartbreaking. And knowing what we do now about Mom’s personality and how passive-aggresive/ironic she is, I have to say - if my cat died, I would also build him a mausoleum if I could. My family has an older cat now, who I love to pieces, who’s probably going to die within a few years. Me moving out was probably a good move to help build some space for when that happens. He’s a great cat. He deserves a mausoleum. And if I were in a position where I could bring him back, even at the cost of the world, well. I don’t know if I would actually do it, but I’d certainly consider it. Another thing that struck me about Jaspers’ disappearance is that I feel pretty certain that Mom had some inkling about what happened. Her house was built over the Skaianet lab, which had appearifiers and stuff in it. If Rose described what happened when Jaspers vanished, she might have been able to at least recognize the method of disappearance. I dunno what she would have or even could have done, but. Interesting to think about

That’s about all I have for right now. We’ll see what else comes to mind as I continue to read.

[c-rox-sprites]

i don’t mean for this to come off as rude or anything, but why won’t you do gender bends?

to be honest, i think it was originally what was common place for trans support back in 2017/18. that was around when i went dormant and six years later ive been really curious how to address a change in rules to that regard. bc the same deal is for the rules on non-trans guy lanque, non-gay dirk, non-lesbian kanaya, etc. i have no idea what people think nowadays about these ideas.

i was adhering to rules the fandom set in place at the time, yes granted there were others still doing these headcanons and genderbends and not following that rule bc who tf cares right? i was nervous to fit in though, so i saw what other blogs like mine were doing at that time. but that's not an excuse to the feelings i hurt then and now.

im thinking of doing a questionnaire about the rules to get a fair judgement on the nowadays relaxed manners on the subjects i set to rule. im happy you came to me in a calm manner friend. ill change that rule now!

[silkenseductress]

>The latter, still hoping for the former. And with there still being some excess light and heat around, feel free to enjoy doing the exact opposite of "suns out, buns out"! We are certain you'll find something to spend time on, and we are equally sure the populace will enjoy your return.

[Return? I Don't Think I've Ever Actually Been Out Derspit Way

Either Way They Better Keep It To Themselves If They Don't

Heh

I Should Probably See If Kanaya Has Your Planets Address

I'm Gonna Need Some Leads Obviously You Have Anyone You Wanna Set Me Up With

A Partner Or Something

Honestly I Just Need Something He Owns]

[calamitascalliope]

I've said this stuff in the tags of a few posts recently, but I figured I'd put all my thoughts on Homestuck: Beyond Canon in one post so I can go back to it if I end up accidentally predicting anything.

I'm tentatively hopeful, but I also recognize that this new team is still working with everything that happened originally in HS^2 and the Epilogues, and that holds some of my biggest gripes with post-canon. While I don't think it is impossible to overcome those problems going forward, it's gonna be tough and I can see the new team not addressing them or even making them worse.

Also, the writing is slightly mixed. It is definitely better than og post-canon, and it even tops a lot of og homestuck, but there are parts that really pulled me out of it.

Referencing memes is something og Homestuck did a lot, and I didn't like it back then and I hate it just as much now. Terezi referencing the berries and creme shit and the how hungry meme really pulled me out of it, and felt very jarring and not too funny. Tho I will say that Sollux No Bitches was actually good, and I think that is because it felt like something he would say without knowing what the meme was.

Outside of the meme shit, the writing was pretty good. Definitely some of the best homestuck writing there's been, and leagues ahead of HS^2. I never thought I'd see John and Sollux carry a scene together but it was great.

Now for some hopes I have for the future

Apparently a lot of the team are Jade fans, so I'm really hoping this story can treat her well for once. HS^2 started that by having her break free from Alt Calliope's control in probably the best scene in HS^2. I'm very hopeful for Meat Jade, so I'm really only looking with caution towards Candy Jade. Her husband has been uploaded into a robot and gone rogue, her kid has been kidnapped, and she's just had a really embarrassing secret revealed to her friends. There is a chance the narrative takes a really cruel turn with her, so I'm nervous but hopeful.

Staying on Jade stuff, we need to give Yiffany a new name. Give her a nickname like Vrissy, have her change her name, anything please. Just call her Tiffany, I beg you.

Make June happen. If I'm being honest, June should've happened all the way back in the Candy Epilogue. That was the perfect moment for it narratively. Make June happen and make it good, please.

Make Kanaya an actual character. In Meat she is at her best, but she is still very quiet and very one note sadly. Her wanting to go on a quest of vengeance to get back her wife and beat up Dirk is great, and I hope they lean more into her anger this time instead of her just being sad and quiet. Candy is definitely the worst of Kanaya. I'm not opposed to the Rose cheating thing, but I have two main problems with it. First, the framing it as Rose just doing it as a friend to Jade. It would be much more interesting if there was some sort of emotion there, but whatever that ship has sailed. My second problem is with Kanaya just taking it without any problems. She just kinda shrugged and went whatever. I want to see Kanaya actually do something and vocalize what she wants. Please

Finally, I want them to treat Jane better. I'm going to be honest. This is one of most likely not going to happen at all. Candy Jane has been shoved neatly into the evil villain role, and I can't see a way for them to dig her out of that. Maybe they could do something with Meat Jane, but I have no clue if they are going back to Meat Earth C. They were doing stuff with that in the patreon exclusive comics back in the day, but I can 100% see them dropping those storylines to focus all their efforts on the main story. If they somehow do something good with Jane, I will be over the moon, and this entire mess will have been worth it.

[davekat-sucks]

I did enjoy the candy Jade stuff in the most recent update involving her, but the reason for that is due to there being some consequences for once in this story. It is lessened by the fact that, as you said, its extremely obvious that things will turn out fine in the end, but it was nice to feel something for a few moments other than utter boredom of going through the motions.

I also disagree with the spite thing, but less because I don't believe you, and more because imo they completely sucked with the spite. Like for a series that apparently revels in pissing off the audience, it sure is embarassing to me that three separate teams over different sequel properties all failed at making me feel the slightest bit angry. But you know, this and my belief that them ditching the epis would be a weak move (considering how much hs liked to discard and bury things before) is personal preference and me being weird.

I do agree with you that Calliope gets off way too easy. Alt Calliope less so, because despite being "one of the most power characters", its pretty obvious that she's an isolated friendless weirdo who is going to fail because nobody like or respects her. But both normal Calliope's weirdly get a lot of rope, despite doing a ton of weird shit not commented on.

But addressing the consequences was too little too late by the time Beyond Canon talks about this. Because in the early pages when it all went down, Kanaya seething and bottling up her emotions inside was not implied or shown. Most had assume that she was fine and that Rose, Kanaya, and Jade were in a 3 poly relationship. OT3 is still a thing in the fandom and that doesn't involve quadrants. It just affirms the worse that WhatPumpkin hated Rosemary and Jade's character assassination was needed to shield themselves from criticism. Don't you fucking say that everything Jade does was IN-CHARACTER. If it was Ult Dirk or Alt Calliope forcing Jade to do these horrible things ever since Epilogues, it's not been that obvious or even confirmed by the people behind it to say that Jade is not really herself in all of this bullshit. And yet that's how it is with James admitting it that Hussie and the rest, had made Epilogues and Homestuck 2/Beyond Canon out of spite. Hell, Epilogues was suppose to be just the Vriska Show. Even now with this recent update, it's all about Vriska's Redemption Arc #7 after already having gone through it from her ghost self in Act 6. I also see that trolling and spiting the audiences are two completely different things. At least for the trolling part in early acts, it was meant to be funny and it does cause impact within the narrative or story. But by Post Retcon, it is just necessary drama that is just as bad as early Act 6 with the Alpha Kids. The shit we have seen in Epilogues and HS2/Beyond Canon ain't trolling, it is pure spite and hatred. If it's just trolling, why isn't Hussie still around to fuck with us? Why leave? You can't seriously believe he was a victim just by reading his self ego boosting autobiography Psycholonials. So why can't the team play it even with this Calliope for her to get screwed over? Not just Alt Calliope? Because right now, she gets back with Roxy after Roxy divorced John. They are lesbians again and nothing is standing in their way. Same for the Roxy and Calliope in the Meat Timeline. Bitch has it easy compared to others.

[mxrpchronicle]

if youre still accepting complaints in your inbox can we talk about genderbends?

not the concept of genderbends. i think its both silly and pointless but so are most things we roleplay. my actual gripe is genderbent characters who give you no context whatsoever to the interaction, whether through dialogue or ooc

how am i supposed to know if fem!busty!slutty!karkat is someone my character already knows and is just a normal part of this setting, or was recently turned into a girl through magic, or if shes straight up from an alternate universe or dream bubble where she already knows a male!kanaya? and what do i address her as if you keep the acronym as CG? is her name even still karkat or is it karkit or karkeisha or whatever other stupid "girl" version of karkat someone came up with?

it doesnt have to be that serious either. just an opening line like "omg kanaya you gotta help, jade just accidentally turned me into a girl and now im super horny too" does a fantastic easy job of setting things up that doesnt involve us awkwardly dancing around the topic

i am always accepting complaints. it doesn't even have to be in the first line, if you can get as far as the third, give me her name otherwise i'm going to use the wrong one and we're just gonna have to work around it. it'll end the rp sometimes, but honestly? i like to think it just makes things easier on both of us.

[nutzworth]

i havent heard that before actually! the whole candy isnt in canon therefore they can do ooc stuff to their hearts content. that is kind of awesome. i like that

though: sorry if i come off confrontational imagine we are in like a debate class. i just like disproving points because i am a nerd i feel like that philosophy falls apart a little more cus of new writers making everyone seem MORE canon and real. more like they used to be. and the whole "characters seeming ooc" thing may just be an accident cus of the prior writers. THOUGH ALSO: homestuck is a webcomic built on happy little accidents like that. funny things that hussie puts in without thinking and it has insane meaning later on. so that might carry to hsbc

the thing is that i dont really think rose going all I knew it all along. and jade going all teehee >_< homewrecker isnt like... completely out of left field. we know rose's seer powers only stretch so far (as she was trying to break sburb down with her laptop and doc scratch cueball, but just couldnt [act 5 act 2?]. she might have talked about it with terezi around game over too?) but going "ultimate" (or however candy defines ultimate. do they go ultimate at all?) might have just made her crazy insane at seeing everything ever (therefore it IS ooc). but also she could have made a mistake and looked like, a million yrs in the future, wherein kanaya probably would have forgiven her by then. who even knows. they call me the giver of the doubt as for jades thing i kind of addressed it in og post so i wont reiterate that. this isnt shading you for skimming it i totally get it. slash genuine i am the talker

ok enough of all that. sorry again i talk so much i dont mean to be confrontational its an honor speaking with you mr president

was on twitter (oops) and theres a ton of people going apeshit over kanaya in the upd8 (hs:bc upd8) right obviously and i saw one (1) post about "still hating hs2. jade would not fucking do this" and like. huff.

fosmf if youre there and youve read the hsbc update tell me your thoughts on this. im so curious

in MY opinion, i really like jade in postcanon in general. OBVIOUSLY, the stuff with davekat SUCKS + IS WEIRD + outb of character (i doubt jade would cross boundaries in such a weird way? like a girl can take a hint esp for the people she loves.) but in the update it goes over jade and why she did what she did and like a cute little summary of the yiffy situation. i never really hated yiffy? and i hate yiffy even less with the update. narration + backstory with reasoning did its job.

SUMMARY, AS I SEE IT: jade was dating around mortals but came to the conclusion that they dont want HER, they want to say they dated the GOD OF SPACE. they wanted clout and she hated it. and i dont know. i think she went a little crazy cus of it. she was like I am truly alone in this world. Im cursed to be alone. Im doomed because of my aspect. How can i fix this. solution: HAVE A BABY. and it needs to be one of her god friends. she cant have a baby with a random mortal. john and dave are boys; they cant bear children. she cant have a baby with roxy or jane because she doesnt know them well. that leaves: rose lalonde so jade has a baby with rose lalonde and keeps it a secret. she talks to jane, and this is fine because its largely professional, and she makes sure yiffany (the baby) doesnt become a celebrity. yiffy is normal. yiffy is a normal kid and she has a normal life. jade needs her to have a normal life. jade needs to feel that connection with normality that she never had, jade needs to make sure yiffy doesnt go through the same damn thing she did. and she keeps it a secret. she bonded with rose. if kanaya finds out, thatll tear all three of them apart. jade craves the company. jade craves friendship and closeness. but of course, shes a space player and shes doomed. so they find out. and yiffy gets on the news. and everything is torn

ANYWAY: i think thats so cool. i think thats a great explanation. i think jade WOULD do that is the thing. its a logical train of thought and she makes some stupid mistakes and bad decisions but overall its rational. if i was in her situation i would probably do the same thing. yiffany longstocking is like jade harleys' my love mine all mine by mitski you get me. jade harley yearns for the closeness and having a baby can fill that. what other option did she have? she was crazy

interested to hear other peoples thoughts on this. i may just be biased because i love jade harley